First time with flake tobacco
I have been hearing a lot about flake tobaccos and have never tried any, so before the tax increase in April, I bought a bunch of tobacco, and in that order were three tins of flake. Mac Baren Mixture Flake, Navy Flake and Samuel Gawith's Navy Flake. I have been looking at the sealed tins daily. Haven't opened any basically because I have so many other tobaccos open and in the process I wanted to finish up first.
Well, curiosity and lack of patience got the better of me last night after work. I was at the computer, and I though about the flakes resting in their sealed tins and thought a YouTube video might be a good way to start learning about how to pack flakes in a pipe. So, I watched a couple very informative videos, and decided to just open a tin and try a flake, since the videos inspired me to end my wait.
The flake I chose was Mac Baren Mixture Flake, it was the one on top that I have been looking at every day. In the tin, the aroma is a little like prunes I guess. I did the "fold and stuff" method that I had seen on YouTube, and trimmed off the little that didn't get down into the bowl of my Tsuge Triangle straight billiard. I left those bits and pieces on the side. The tobacco lit well after 2 charring lights. It burned a little hot sometimes, so I had to make a deliberate attempt to puff slowly. The bowl in that pipe is a little conical, so I am sure there was an air pocket at the bottom, the draw was just fine, nice and easy. I let the pipe go out around mid bowl, it was getting too warm for me, so it sat a few minutes. When I picked it back up, I dumped the crumbs on top after tamping and relit it, and it was terrific! What a difference. Smooth even burn, good flavor, which by the way I have no idea how to explain other than it is a little sweet, a little smokey, somewhat leather like in the nose, an odd, but pleasant enough flavor. The flakes might be too moist though, I have no way of knowing what is right or wrong in this area, but the pipe was gurgling a bit, and that pipe never gurgles. It might have been from the heat though.
I noticed that the pipe smoked way longer than I am used to in a bowl that small. My test run went OK, except for a little tongue tingle afterwards. Not quite a tongue bite, but a tingle.
So, this morning after breakfast and during my huge mug of coffee, I picked another flake out of the tin, and packed a bent Paronelli billiard with a straight sided rounded bottom bowl to see if there was a difference. It lit well, with the same flavors, but the ember traveled down the center of the tobacco, leaving the sides unburned and stuck to the inside of the bowl. After collapsing them down with a tamper, I relit, and the same thing happened in a few minutes. The bowl also got quite warm, so I sat it down again to cool off a bit. The bowl wall of this pipe is really thick, so I am quite surprised that it got hot. Again, after some time I'm not even half way down, so possibly flake tobacco burns longer, which raises the question of why it produces so much heat. Interesting stuff without a doubt.
I am beginning to feel the same tongue tingle that I did last night. I am not sure if it is the blend or the cut since both are new to me. Perhaps tonight after work I will try rubbing out a flake and see if I notice a difference in any way.
Lessons learned so far, keep some crumbs for the very top, go very slowly, check the pipe for heat more often than I usually do, drink something with this tobacco to keep the tingle from becoming a bite. I also found out that tamping with a finger works better than a Czech tool, you get a better feel that way. I look forward to gaining some experience with this new form of tobacco.
I'm glad I gave in to my lack of patience, it was an interesting beginning for me.
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Ah, flakes! Love 'em all.
It seems that the majority of what I smoke is flake tobacco. I've fiddled with all the different ways to smoke them and frankly 95% of the time I just rub them out. There is one school of thought that the flake when smoked in the "fold and stuff" method provides a deeper/fuller flavor than when rubbed out. I didn't believe it until I tried it with MacBaren Navy Flake ... I've been rubbing Navy Flake out for years so naturally I've grown to love the flavor that way. When I folded and stuffed it the flavor was noticably different - and I didn't like the difference. That was just me being stubborn about messing with my beloved Navy Flake flavor I'm sure ... but the difference was very noticable. I've fiddled with most of the flakes I smoke and to be quite honest never noticed a very substantial change in flavor with any other tobacco though. When folded they do tend to smoke longer ... but I've not noticed them smoking hotter. Is your cadence too fast - are you over working the tobacco? Others who fold and stuff all the time can comment better than I here.
A note about the moisture level of flakes ... nearly all the flakes I have need a few minutes of drying time before I smoke them. Please note I tend to like my tobacco a bit on the dry side anyway so maybe I'm just the odd man here, but if you're getting that tingle its likely the tobacco telling you to dry it a bit first. Just put the flake out for about 5-15 minutes before prepping it for smoking ... this should fix everything for you.
A note on Navy Flake ... it will bite when the tin is freshly popped. Not to fear, this tobacco gets better and better the longer you let it dry out and with the drying comes zero bite so don't worry about it. For the first few flakes just put them out for at least 10 minutes and you'll be fine. It really is one super top notch tobacco. Without a doubt my desert island tobacco for many years now. A suggestion for testing your Navy Flake ... try three consecutive bowls but prep the tobacco different each time:
First time:
10 minutes drying time and then fully rub it out ... pack per normal and enjoy. (you're gonna like this)
Second time:
10 minutes drying time and then fold and stuff.
Third time:
10 minuted drying time and then pack in three layers ... not the normal three layers though.
* bottom layer is 1/4 of the bowl fully rubbed out.
* middle 1/2 bowl is the solid flake cut into 1/8" squares
* top 1/4 bowl is fully rubbed out.
What this last method does for you is it makes lighting the bowl a dream. Then you get the more intense solid flake flavor mid-bowl. And finally the bottom burns with less relights than fold and stuff. This is my favorite method of smoking a flake ... and it works real good with Navy Flake.
Ok, enjoy! And tell us how you like all these flakes you've got!
Oh yeah, one other thing ... many folks like group 3 sized pipes for smoking their flakes - since the flake smokes slower you still get a full length smoking time from the smaller pipes. Personally I reach for group 4 or group 5 bowls all the time ... but its a thought for you.
I am trying my hand at flake
I am trying my hand at flake tobacco as well, the question I have is when doing the fold and stuff method do you initially want to fill the entire bowl with tobacco? I know it expands as it heats, which could potentially cause it to overfill.
Flakes are fun!
I use the "crumble and stuff" method. That works best for me. I just crumble it up and then pack as I would normal tobacco.
No, a very lose fit is called for
You've got it right when you say the tobacco expands ... keep the bowl VERY losely filled with the fold and stuff method or it will over-expand and make it near impossible to keep lit and will smoke hotter than heck. Frankly this is the reason I almost always fully rub out my flakes ... I never really got the knack of folding and stuffing correctly.
Well what can I say to add to
Well what can I say to add to this thread?
Once you have tried Flakes you then try the Plugs etc - after that you smoke "mixtures" for quickness - probably outdoor smoking.
I appreciate the advice Rick.
I appreciate the advice Rick. Going to give some more Kendall Cream FLake a whirl tomorrow.
Thanks again.
I generally only smoke ...
flakes in the evenings when I can crumble up a pile on the counter and pack it. During the day, I smoke traditional broken flake or ribbon cuts for convenience and speed.
I smoke flakes most of the
I smoke flakes most of the time. My trusty OGS is a flake tobacco (and a damned good one at that), but I rarely smoke it using the Fold'n'Stuff technique. Per Georg Jensen from Mac Baren will have you know that the only proper way to smoke a flake is just that, the fold'n'stuff way. While he's certainly entitled to his opinion about the matter, I couldn't disagree with him more.
Like Rick has pointed out, there is a difference in taste in folding vs. rubbing. I prefer the rubbed (or slightly rubbed) rather than the fold. Orlik and Mac Baren tobaccos alike, in my experience, taste better once rubbed out. I generally smoke smaller pipes, as is the tradition here in Europe, so something Group 2-3'ish is what I use.
Good flakes (in my opinion):
Wow! what a great bunch of advice and needed help!
Thanks so much Rick for the lengthy and really informative reply and I also appreciate the input of Captain Bob and having Eric in Texas jump in was great as well. There is a lot to digest and try in all this. Now you tempted into cracking open a tin of Navy Flake too, which I just did, Samuel Gawith Navy Flake to be exact, it smells heavenly, and is a bit more pliable than the MB Mixture Flake as well, and feels damp, so I agree with the drying time before smoking. I took a MB Mixture Flake out and set it on a folded paper towel for about 10 or so minutes, time enough to make a snack and open a Bud. I felt it before eating my snack and it felt the same. So, the time it takes to eat a few crackers with peanut butter and drink half a beer was added to the original 10 minutes, so I would guestimate 10-15 minutes for the flake to sit out. I crumbled it, tried to roll it into a ball, which didn't happen, it just got finer, so I packed a straight Ascorti Business dublin gently and lit it. After the second light, the flavor was intense. Better smoke volume than the fold and stuff way I did it before. This is a pretty sweet blend, which didn't come out at me before. So, I suppose my fold and stuff methods need some work LOL. However, crumbling/rubbing it out definitely improved the flavor, eased the heat, and is a very good way to handle a flake for anybody I think.
I might have been smoking a bit too fast during my first attempt at the fold and stuff method looking for some flavor, and to get some smoke going. Perhaps that was why I got a mild tongue tingling, which I still feel, however this bowl isn't making it any worse. I just ran a pipe cleaner down into the shank because it was starting to gurgle, so perhaps it is still a little moist. It has been raining all day, and is very humid out, so that might be why it didn't dry much in the time I gave it. It is smoking fine though. Cool, not overheating the pipe, and full of flavor, nice blend, and a nice easy way to handle a flake successfully. I will give the other two methods outlined in your reply a try tomorrow and see how it goes. I will also dry the flakes out a bit longer, perhaps a half hour or so, since it is supposed to be damp and rainy here till Wednesday. The different methods seem to have their own merits. The three layer one seems especially interesting and logical. I suppose you cut the tobacco on a cutting board with a knife, or perhaps a pair of scissors? I will also be trying the SG Navy Flake tomorrow as well, I can't wait to see if it tastes as good as it smells.
As far as pipe bowl sizes go, I don't have any idea what the group numbers mean, I think they are rooted in Dunhill pipes sizes. I know that the pipe I am smoking now has a chamber of just over 3/4" in diameter, and 1 1/4"-1 1/2" in depth. Perhaps you can tell me what group that falls in. It took just about one full Mixture flake, the leftovers will probably make a 1/4 bowl or so.
This bowl is down one third now, and smoking very well. I will relax and enjoy it while browsing some of the other posts here for a while before bed. Thanks again for all your assistance.
Flakes are wonderful. When
Flakes are wonderful. When I'm not doing cartwheels for OGS, I'll usually be on a Mac Baren Navy Flake spree. So far, for me, the best blends in the world come in flake form.
Other great flakes:
I suggest you simply...
...consider the convenience of a larger bowl that seems to work for your packing of flake tobacco's. For me, without a doubt, I only use a larger bowl for flakes. That doesn't mean you have to. Nor, does it mean that larger is "wider" but that does help. It's really a volume thing. Flakes burn slowly even when crumbled and packed. That's their nature. When rubbed, crumbled or broken up, you still have pressed tobacco. Thus it burns slowly for you to sip not puff hard.
Since I am smoking pressed tobacco when smoking flakes, I generally do not fill the bowl completely. It all depends on how long you wish to smoke. Also, I find that tamping is always more necessary with flakes which is understandable due to their pressed nature which you are placing into your bowl. Tamping will secure that your load is burning evenly.
Success with flakes
Hi and thanks to all of you that added replies to my original post. I appreciate the feedback and information I received. I have been having a lot of success with the flakes I have opened. I have learned that MB Mixture Flake is not a good blend for my tastes. It smokes OK crumbled and rubbed out, but the flavor isn't one that will get me to buy more.
SG Navy Flake is on the other hand a great tobacco. I love it, slow burning, very tasty, and burns very clean. I will probably keep some of this around at all times. Not an all day smoke in my opinion, but when something special is in order, this fills the bill. I prefer rubbing this out too.
Rick, the three layer packing method with the little squares is a nice way to smoke this flake, but a little too much tinkering and fiddling for me. I gave it a shot, and ended up with two bowls of prepared flake, so I simply smoked two bowls back to back in different pipes to see how it went. I think a larger bowl is good for flakes, as well as most other blends. I tend to like larger bowls anyway, and flakes go well in a larger bowl. so, I thank you all for your help, and I am enjoying flakes now pretty well.
A happy ending/beginning without a doubt!
Glad you found the groove
SG Navy Flake ... my comment was regarding MacBaren Navy Flake. Hmm. Never tried SG's Navy Flake. May have to some day. Either way you're right the "cut 'n chunk" thing is a lot of fiddling but I like fiddling with my tobaccos so there you have it. As long as you find a method that works for you then its all good.
I never tried it but where I
I never tried it but where I get my cigars online they have all types of tobacco available and i usually buy from them to roll my own, a lot more types available then my local smoke shop thats for sure.